Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. Feb 3, 2013. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. . Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? And its one of only two elements of the golf swing that require absolutely no physical skills. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. 16,822. I do not find these to dig at all. Newer irons, however, are designed with a loft angle that is between 18 and 22 degrees. Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. United States. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. The Ever Changing Bag! Custom Edel E-3 Putter. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. Your previous content has been restored. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. It would increase if you added loft. LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. In turn creating around 12 more yds. It wasn't so much the distance I was concerned with but that I hit it a bit too high with a normal swing and it caused some issues on windy days. Bending the loft is another story. What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. I have mine bent 2 degrees strong and cannot see any visible difference. Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. And here is why. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. "If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? Or, is the bounce all the same? Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. One good example comes to mind. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. Pros and cons? Epoxy Curing Times for Golf Clubs, Work Life and Shear Strength. There are however a few key points that golfers need to know about changing the lie angle of their club so that they can get the most out of their club. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Paste as plain text instead, TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert You might as well get a distance gap before bending. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. With all due respect, I am not saying you do not, but club fitters do this all the time and if they mess it up then they can replace the club. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Might actually help on hard ground. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. weight removed), Ball:1. St Louis, MO. They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. I was fit for my current irons and they were bent 2 degrees strong for ball flight purposes. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company
In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. At a club fitting it was pointed out that I had about a 0 aoa and was launching a bit higher than ideal. TM TP UDi #3, MC 4-7, MB 8-P w/ Tour V S+ Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. By Step 1 for those golfers is to increase ball speed. Thanks for the insight! The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. The MB and CB clubs you have need a bit more loft to get the ball launched well. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. The risk that the club will break at the hosel is too high. You cannot paste images directly. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. The 27-year-old made his way onto the top level by virtue of his performance on the Korn Ferry Tour during the combined Covid seasons, and hes doing a great job in honing his craft. Your link has been automatically embedded. The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. Paste as plain text instead, My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! Its like that distance is just not filled. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* Some get more spin, some less. Contact Us FAQs I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! What the heck are they were talking about? I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Great answer Blake. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. IG: golfer_scott A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. All rights reserved. 5 Testers Needed! Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. However, recent form has shown the real Grant, with back-to-back class efforts at Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach, where at the former he led an elite field after a first-round 64. You dont need to bend the clubs. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Youll be amazed at the difference a properly fit set of irons can make to your game. Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! Barring physical limitations, anyone can learn to hold the club properly, and you can practice it anywhere from the sofa in front of your TV to your office while on a call. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. Everyone's comments are super helpful! That would depend on what GI head design you have and to be quite honest the only way to be sure would be to test these irons on a golf radar. 3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft. 5 Testers Needed! 00bolt, September 12, 2016 in WRX Club Techs. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. You can post now and register later. Bounce means nothing. Sign up to receive product offers and news! So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. What amazes me the most is how many golfers will continually spend thousands of dollars on golf equipment but never take the initiative to change those fundamental things that will help them really improve their skills and abilities. I know its different for each golfer depending on their individual characteristics but do you have rough numbers (for iron set) to be looking for in terms of launch angle, spin rate etc. Brent Grant always brings the energy ?? 4-6 more yards (depending on club and swing speed) and lower launch with less bounce. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. When looking for clubs that fit your game, a professional club fitter will look at these factors down below to determine what their lie angle should be: I know this concept can be confusing, especially if you have never been fit for golf clubs before. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or I completely agree with this! Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 It is a lot easier to find what lie angle you need in your golf clubs and purchase a set rather than have to individually bend each club. My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. IG: golfer_scott I realize it is hard to write to such a diverse audience, but Im going to give it my best with this post, and pose the basic two questions to each of you : If the answer to No. I am in favor of weaker lofts. All very well getting consistent loft gaps if your distance gaps are varied. Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. All Rights Reserved. It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. What are you trying to achieve? My old callway x forged dug more than my bent mp-4's. What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? Having spent a lot of his childhood in Hawaii and now on a course that will reward his best asset, Grant can justify this snippet from a recent interview: Fortunately for me, I grew up in the wind.. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. :-). Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. (more on this down below). Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. It has been working really well for me. I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. All rights reserved. **. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. 1 is somewhere between somewhat important to very important, then the next question has to be. You can post now and register later. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. You may want to try searching if you need more info. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. A good tune-up is a good tune-up regardless of the final loft gaps. My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. So the assumption is that the loft alone is what is creating more distance with the new irons. I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin.