There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. Period. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Because its flat out bull**it. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. No, it doesnt. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Trust a P365 with your life. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Would you? He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. I dont own a P320. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Wont last!. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. I agree. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . I have no idea. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Dont care for them, not my jam. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. 2. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? It has nothing to do with Glock. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. congrats. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Either the gun is defective or its not. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. D. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Thats the same. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. three changes to the original design. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. Seems a bit apologetic to me. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. Legal Penalties. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Is it? As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. Nope. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s.
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